Definition of Pay to Win?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by n8dm, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. n8dm

    SkyGod

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    Alrighty, so I just got into a lovely argument with 2 amazing people on the great ArcadianMC network about the definition of p2w. I'll give a summary of what happened to the best of my ability

    My definition of pay to win is the option or the ability to pay money to, in this case, the server, for an advantage that others cannot obtain for free. An easy example of this is the fact that Phantom rank is the lowest rank with /fly, meaning you need to pay $75 (I think) at least for /fly.
    Now their argument is involving arccash. They both believe that arccash is NOT pay to win. I'm not exactly sure why they think this as it straight up is. Arccash enables (or enabled) you to pay premium currency for an advantage that normal people do not possess, much like paying real money. (I'm calling it premium pretty loosely as you can't buy it, but getting it involves giving the server money through ad views or publicity through votes)
    Seeing as arccash essentially does what real money does, I personally believe it falls into the category of pay to win.

    Another thing, here's the real definition of pay to win: (as provided by a google search of "pay to win definition")

    "In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win"
    I fully believe paying money and/or arccash does completely fit this definition.

    This server does indeed have things that are COMPLETELY pay to win. I'm going to use some of the unbreakable pickaxes as an example here. I'm aware I just gave an example along the lines of access to /fly, but here is another example just in case that one didn't make sense. According to the definition, players that are willing to pay for special items (the unbreakable pickaxe in this case) will gain a significant advantage (being able to afk mine forever, nonstop. I'm aware people with normal ranks can stop to /fix, but a) that is not nonstop and b) guess what? ranks cost money!) over those playing for free.


    I believe I explained the argument well enough, and gave decent examples. Please do give your opinion, as if I am wrong I am willing to admit it and accept what is correct.

    [edit] And before I get comments from staff defending the pay to win aspect as part of the business, please realize I don't actually have to big of a problem with the pay to win, I just had a problem with the two people that wouldn't listen to my definition of it. [edit]

    This argument was pretty stupid, and admittedly I might be wrong. Here I am being the bigger person, I'm sorry if I was wrong. You know who you are, you two. However I do not appreciate the fact that all you guys did during the whole argument was deny my points constantly and spam yours. That is not a great way to argue, and throwing in insults doesn't really contribute to the discussion at all. I'm aware that you guys might have been a little mad, and anger can lead to rash choices during arguments, but please, next time, be a little more mature. And, an afterthought, if you two do end up responding to this post, please don't just hate on it because you're on the other side of this argument. Actually read what I just said and maybe put a little thought into a valuable response.

    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 3, 2018 ---
    inb4 they both just hate on this irrationally
     
    #1 n8dm, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  2. Tinkyyy

    SkyGod

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    Arccash isn’t pay to win because anyone can earn it buy just playing the game? It’s literally free money which makes it the furthest away from pay to win possible.
    Although it’s being changed anyway so...
     
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  3. n8dm

    SkyGod

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    Alright, you're clearly not understanding my point here. Arccash is obtained by watching ads or voting, not playing the game. It really isn't free money, it's free store credit. And no, it is not the furthest from p2w possible, it's the closest you can get without involving real money. You use arccash to obtain an advantage over players that don't, correct?
    "pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free"
    It sure doesn't involve real money, but it does involve gaining an advantage over those that don't grind ads.
    And yeah it's getting changed, rip arccash being good anymore.
     
  4. Tinkyyy

    SkyGod

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    But ANYONE can grind arccash? Therefore you may be paying, but so can anyone else just as easily, it doesn’t limit you based off of your or your parents income. You are putting yourself at the disadvantage by not grinding arccash if you want to win.
     
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  5. xJas

    Emperor

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    U can get arccash from sd koth boss n stuff
     
  6. n8dm

    SkyGod

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    You realize that's even worse, right? According to you, you're essentially forced to grind arccash if you want to succeed? That's more of a disadvantage to those that don't than there just being an option.
    I didn't know that tbh, good to know.
     
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  7. Tinkyyy

    SkyGod

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    So you expect to “win” without even working for it?
     
  8. Kenneth

    Kenneth Well-Known Member

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    definition of pay2win: you pay to win in placing 3d cubic blocks
     
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  9. Stitchie

    Deity Sensei Paladin

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    ArcCash is pay2win. How will i compete with someone that has $200 ArcCash farmed up over the season and spends it on the next one? There is no equal distribution of ArcCash and you can't "grind" ArcCash (in a legal way). If you wanna lots of ArcCash, then you most likely had to pay real money first in order to obtain it as events leading to getting the ArcCash are far easier if you have the general paid advantage to begin with. I can sell my paid stuff for ArcCash, i can get free ArcCash every month from paid ranks, selling any currencies for ArcCash (and obviously pay2win players have it easy to grind cash on skyblock as example.)
    Besides that, if you watch Ads to gather ArcCash then ArcCash isn't free. And most people like me can't even watch any ads so its even limited to just a few players that can farm ArcCash.

    Just ArcCash isn't pay2win, but since you are able to pay real money for even bigger advantages, it is. And also the server isn't not pay2win just because there is a ArcCash system.
     
  10. aGuy_

    aGuy_ Well-Known Member

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    thats chicken. use a dankin vpn
     
    #10 aGuy_, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2018
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  11. TheWij

    TheWij Member

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    Arccash really isn't p2w people just farm it too hard. When it first released it was all coolio but slowly degraded into what it is now. Imma be real and say the crystal system was better and you can't change my mind. The server lost barely any money and you could only buy cosmetics, temp perks and crates.
    Onto the definition of p2w I define it as buying something that boosts progress or gives you an advantage over someone else, so pay to win eloel not that hard. Arcadian will prolly be shutting down within the next 12 months anyway so make it last.
     
  12. IceyMatt

    SkyGod

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    If Arccash is pay to win, then so would every farm that you can think of... You farm Arccash the same way you farm other materials, but it is just in a different form. Everyone is capable of obtaining Arccash whether you watch ads, vote or buy it with in-game money. Pay to win is when you use irl money to purchase items from the store that gives you a higher advantage since irl money is different for everyone. It depends on how much you grind it. Theoretically, everyone can farm Arccash at the same rate, but irl money is a different case. Also, this is just a side note, but people get so salty about people that pay to win. I've never spent a single penny on this server (other than Arccash), and it's not that hard to "get good". Most of the people that pay to win aren't even good.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 4, 2018 ---
    Nothing is stopping you from grinding that much Arccash. If you can't watch ads, that isn't a problem caused by Arcadian.
     
  13. FireFall312

    Deity SkyLord Novice Paladin

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    Definitely Pay to win but
    ArcCash is not P2W.
     
  14. ItsWolfayy

    Deity SkyLord Novice Paladin

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    @aGuy_ y is this still a topic lololo
     
  15. CJGangsta

    Moderator Deity SkyLord Ninja Paladin Captain

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    get real money, buy a LOAD of keys, get ArcCash, buy more keys, get more arc (if you're lucky enough), etc. Most ArcCash in the eco comes from giveaways (admin giveaways) and crates.

    I completely agree with you @n8dm, read the whole thing.
     
  16. aGuy_

    aGuy_ Well-Known Member

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    eh
    god dangit staff im not a 420 blazer
     
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  17. Speedy

    SkyLord Supreme

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  18. CJGangsta

    Moderator Deity SkyLord Ninja Paladin Captain

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    :( first 2 replacement words that came to mind
     
  19. Jumpahh

    Jumpahh Retired Administrator

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    ArcCash is basically a premium currency, I agree with you on that. Anyone has the possibility to gain ArcCash through many, many different sources and events on all servers across Arcadian. You have events, crates, rank daily, weekly and monthly bonuses if you own a rank.

    The current but soon to change ArcCash system is extremely rare to find anywhere else, not just on Minecraft but in gaming communities as a whole. I think everyone should be grateful that those who have played Arcadian before and are dedicated to it have had the opportunity to use it to our advantage and essentially grab store items for free.

    It's come to a point where this system is failing on generating profit, yes, it sucks that it needs to change because bills have to be paid, but instead of scrapping it or squeezing money from it's players they want to change it and give compensation depending on how much ArcCash you currently have stacked up. It's better than them removing the system entirely because then it would certainly become pay to gain an advantage.

    You really can't hate the changes when we don't know what the changes will be as of yet. They could end up adding some really awesome exclusives which you buy with ArcCash and can't even get on the store! So therefore the 'pay 2 win' side gets nerfed down.

    We just have to wait and see what happens!
     
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  20. Tinkyyy

    SkyGod

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    Basically Arcadian is reducing our allowance because dad lost his job
     
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